1) Do you believe that Mohammed was the ‘Prophet’?
2) Do you believe that his life was an example to all of humankind for all time?
3) Do you believe that Mohammed should not be criticised?
4) By definition, do good Muslims insult the ‘honour’ of the ‘Prophet Mohammed'?
5) If a Muslim spreads false stories about ‘the Prophet Mohammed’, would you consider them a Muslim?
6) If your answer to question 4 is ‘no’, then are there any people who call themselves Muslims whom you consider routinely insult his ‘honour’, and if so, in what way?
7) If false stories are spread about ‘the Prophet Mohammed’, does his marriage to Aisha fall into this category?
8) Muslim tradition holds that Mohammed married Aisha at the age of six (some say seven) and consummated the marriage at the age of nine. Logic thus dictates that if you are a Muslim you must believe that this tradition is correct. As you think that ‘the Prophet Mohammed’ is the paragon of humanity for all time and beyond criticism, an example to all men everywhere, then this facet of his behaviour – paedophilia – you must therefore hold not only to be acceptable, but a good thing. Do you think that Mohammed's consummation of his 'marriage' to Aisha at the age of nine was a morally good thing?
9) Do you now understand why we non-Muslims in England see a specific cultural problem with some of your men (a minority, but a nasty one) operating in a co-ordinated fashion to groom and sexually abuse our underage girls? It possesses dark roots in Islamic tradition, and it is incumbent upon you to tear up those roots and burn them. The video exchange on this subject below is well worth watching, and despite being subtitled in French, is conducted in English.
Thursday, 3 February 2011
25 comments:
Comments that call for or threaten violence will not be published. Anyone is entitled to criticise the arguments presented here, or to highlight what they believe to be factual error(s); ad hominem attacks do not constitute comment or debate. Although at times others' points of view may be exasperating, please attempt to be civil in your responses. If you wish to communicate with me confidentially, please preface your comment with "Not for publication". This is why all comments are moderated.
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how come moslem girls at primary schools cover up?
ReplyDeleteis it modesty? but then who would find a child sexually attractive - no normal man.
then again, if the prophet found a child attractive and had intercourse with her, then the followors of said prophet will think and do likewise.
therefore, the fathers of little girls must ensure they are covered up.
It is only doctrinaire Muslims with whom I have a problem. For nominal Muslims, I possess not hate, but sympathy.
ReplyDeleteI have news for you. "Nominal Muslims" have no sympathy for you as long as you have problem with "doctrinaire muslims".
Your blog is useless and misleading as long as it promotes the myth of "nominal" versus "doctrinaire" moslem. Both are our enemies. The role of the "nominal muslim" is to provide the cover for creeping islam and safe environment for the "doctrinaire", or rather real, moslems. The role of the "doctrinaire" moslem is to demoralize and terrorize us and to motivate the "nominal moslems".
We are in the middle of the war of civilizations. Not fighting back will not make it disappear. Wake up, man!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RMUyAy9zU0
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 1, basically Islam is deeply misogynist, and the various contortions that its followers put themselves through with respect to absurd arguments about hiding behind varying amounts of cloth isn't worth getting dragged into. Paedophilia is an intrinsic part of the standard Muslim cultural universe, even if its practice is not.
ReplyDelete@ Anonymous 2, I agree with you that the problem is not only ideological, but demographic. When I speak of "sympathy", I am referring to those born into Muslim families who actually do not believe in and hate Islam, but who cannot depart for fear of physical violence.
ReplyDeleteMcGonagall, thank you for the link to that deeply disturbing video.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was teaching, I would praise the girls who wore veils, saying it was a shame to cover up their beautiful hair, and that they could remove the scarf and put it back on at going home time. They enjoyed going this and it made them feel more at home in the class.
ReplyDeleteDurotrigan, I am not sure know what your intention by asking these questions but I will answer them anyway.
ReplyDelete1)In Islam we have many prophets such as Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) Prophet Musa (Moses), Prophet Isa (Jesus), peace and blessing be upon them, and yes Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, is the Final Messenger of the Almighty.
2)Yes. Why? I am a born Muslim but I wasn't exactly practicing before and my knowledge of Islam was quite shallow. I didn't completely understand why he was so revered but in the past 1 year I've done a lot of studying about Islam and the life Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, and I am now truly convinced.
3)No he shouldn't be because he was the chosen one. He is not an ordinary person, like you and me, yet he is not divine either but Allah sent him as an example to all of us. If Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him can have humility and submit to One God then so can we.
4)No they wouldn't do that because they would understand the status Allah swt has given to him as a Prophet.
5)Yes but a hypocritical Muslim or a confused one.
6) No, I haven't met such people. Even the convert Muslims I know who love critiquing Islam don't criticise the Prophet.
7)Yes.
8) I know, it sounds crazy right? Again, you really need to take some time to understand The Creator before you pass a judgement. I was once hesitant to answer any questions about this because I wasn't knowledgeable enough but I found this video by chance a few weeks back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM4IuDVFL3s
9) Yes I understand why there a so-called clash of civilisations but I understand there are bad Muslims out there just as there are bad Christians and bad Jews and bad Buddhists, etc. Not every Muslim man is a practicing Muslim man. I am fully against the physical and emotional abuse of women and I do not support any man, be they Muslim or not, who commit such crimes. It is not how God wants us to live our lives. It is not how He wants men to treat women.
Women hold a high status in Islam (don't roll your eyes) and it is evident in the Holy Qur'an. Don't believe me? Read about how Prophet Zakaria peace be upon him and how his faith was elevated after being inspired by Maryam (Mary). He even prayed for a righteous child and not specifically a son, as most people would have asked for in that time. Surah 3 (Ali Imran) verse 35-38
Read how God mentions both men and women will equally be rewarded or punished according to their deeds on Earth. Surah 48 (al Fath) verse 5-6
Lastly I'd like to include a verse from the Holy Qur'an. Allah, Praise and Glory be to him, said:
"To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah. it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute."
Surah 5 (Al Maidah), Verse 48
Hi Shahira,
DeleteI think all of your comments are contradictory, and I want to emphasis only on answer 9 because otherwise it will be a long argument. The Question was that " Do you now understand why we non-Muslims in England see a specific cultural problem with some of your men" . It means with Muslim men? This religion was invented by a man who had sex with 9 year old girl when he was 54. and Muslim law required only the opinion of girls' parents and the Man(GIRL'S OPINION DOES NOT MATTER) . This religion taught that if a Muslim Man fight and kill non-muslim and force non-muslims to convert to Islam they will be rewardded with Virgins So this religion encourage violance
I am a Budhist and I don't live in England. If you see the world every country there are muslims there ae clash between Muslim and Non-Muslims. These questions are common to all non-muslims live all over the wor
Juniper: Female children are not expected to wear headscarves. It is only obligatory to do so once they hit puberty. However some parents just want their daughters to get used to wearing the hijab at a young age so they don't feel awkward about it when they are older, e.g. in their teens.
ReplyDeleteSometimes parents make their young daughters wear it when they go to the mosque just out of respect of a holy place.
I don't know about twisted "Muslim" men and families who force their wives or children to obey Islamic commandments because the majority of Muslim men and families aren't like that.
I only started wearing the hijab when I was 22 and it was a decision that I made by myself and I'm 100% happy with that decision. I don't know if I will make my daughters (when I have them someday) wear the hijab before puberty because it isn't a requirement in Islam at all.
just this: NEVER SURRENDER!
ReplyDeleteNo need to publish this comment, but...
ReplyDeleteYour post #8 is not phrased as a question.
Don't get me wrong - I fully endorse what you are saying here. I just want to make sure 'we' (if you excuse me taking this liberty - it is meant in the most supportive manner) mind our p's and q's...so to speak!
Ineresting defence from the Muslim chap; he seemed to be arguing that his 'prophet' did not in fact have sex with a 9 year old, because the assertion that Aisha was 9 (made by Aisha herself) could not be relied upon.
ReplyDeleteUnderlying this defence is an acknowledgement that if the Islamic 'prophet' did in fact have sex with a 9 year old, then that would be morally wrong.
In short: he's not trying to say that it's not wrong, he's trying to say that his 'prophet' didn't do it.
Shahira, thank you for taking the time to answer the quiz. I do find your answers somewhat contradictory though. Basically, I think that our difference in viewpoint boils down to the following: I think, but you follow. I am not a follower. Many people are by their nature 'followers', but this is an alien concept to me. To my very marrow I am a sceptic and distrust blind faith, whether it be in a religion such as Islam, or in any ideology that chooses to believe itself infallible and demands of its adherents a suspension of the critical faculties.
ReplyDeleteWhy choose Mohammed? Why make exemptions for him? If Allah made such a man as Mohammed and claimed that he was the 'Seal of the Prophets' and an exemplar for the whole of humankind, then Allah is nothing more than the essence of the spirit of evil (I speak metaphorically of course, for I do not believe in a spiritual realm). Given the moral bankruptcy of Mohammed, you may as well choose Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler or Mao Tse-Tung to follow. With the exception of Genghis Khan, not even the historically recorded atrocities of Hitler and Mao involved the level of hands-on personal sadistic violence that formed the meat of Mohammed’s documented life. At least (not that this could in any way redeem them) the twentieth-century sociopaths delegated their cruelty and violence, whereas Mohammed exulted in its personal execution.
Crucifixion, decapitation, amputation, stoning, rape, murder, genocide, robbery, war, paedophilia and routine dissimulation: these were all directly authorised and participated in by your Prophet Mohammed. How can I look upon such a man as being anything other than an embodiment of an inherently anti-human anti-rational spirit? He is but filth. His personal example, although at the time he managed to kill less people, is even more brutal than that of any of the twentieth-century dictators who are so justly reviled. That is why I find your blog and apologia for this ravening beast of a man offensive. This is why I am saddened when anyone freely embraces Islam, and thereby gives himself or herself up to evil.
Just think how absurd your position would sound to yourself if you substituted the historical figure of Stalin for Mohammed, and said that everything that Stalin did was ordained by Allah and ought to be emulated. Do you not see the inherent absurdity of your faith? How can you look upon its cruel essence, yet deny it and even cleave unto it? Do you not see that it is nothing more than codified and communally-endorsed evil?
Good point Xanthippa :-). I shall rephrase.
ReplyDeleteDo not fear Nanette, there will be no surrender on our part.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I wrote Shahirah:
ReplyDeleteHi Shahirah,
You seem to be a nice, open-minded girl. I saw you took the quiz at http://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2011/02/quiz-for-muslims.html and your response to the problem of Aisha's age, referencing that video. I think the speaker in that video is trying his best, but the things in fact are clear. Here's what I mean (taken from http://www.scribd.com/doc/19390943/Why-I-left-Islam-and-am-now-an-Exmuslim page 35):
There are numerous hadiths that explicitly reveal the age of Aisha at the time of her marriage. Here are just some of them:
Sahih Bukhari Bk. 62, No. 64 - The Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.
Sahih Muslim Bk. 008, No. 3310 - Aisha reported: Allah's Apostle married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.
Sahih Bukhari Bk. 62, No. 88 - The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old
Sahih Bukhari 5.236 - Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.
This evidence is further supported by the following events:
Sahih Bukhari 5.234
Narrated Aisha: The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the
home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing on a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me for the marriage. Unexpectedly, Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.
In the above hadith we read that Ayesha was on a swing.
Sahih Muslim Bk. 008, No. 3311
Aisha reported that Allah's Apostle married her when she was seven years old, and she was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he died she was eighteen years old
Sahih Bukhari Volume 8, Bk. 73, No. 151
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter home they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me.
Incidentally, playing with dolls and similar images was forbidden, but as the above shows it was allowed for Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl having not yet reached the age of puberty (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13).
Its no surprise the age of consent in Iran has been set at 9.
Anonymous, thank you for posting the comment that you left at Shahirah's blog. I hope that one day matters crystallise for her, and she decides to leave Islam.
ReplyDeleteShahira, Abraham, Moses and Jesus are NOT mozlem prophets. Izlam was invented by Mohammed in around 62o AD. Jesus was born around 650 years before that, and Moses and Abraham were Jews and were born probably 1000 years before Mohammed. But like many things, such as the 5 Pillars of Izlam, which are actually the 7 Pillars of Wisdom from the Jewish book of Proverbs, Mohammed stole from the Torah and the Old Testament and twisted the words to mean what he wanted them to mean. The koran is a complete perversion of Judaeo-Christianity.
ReplyDeleteWhy do you think the Jews of Khaybar, who Mo so ruthlessly massacred when they refused to join his cult, did not want to have anything to do with him? He was a psychopath with a physical disease as well.
Don't forget that the islamic calendar is lunar, not solar. A lunar year is 11 days short of a solar one, so Aisha could have been younger than 6 by a couple of months.
ReplyDeleteNot that it would have mattered to Mo in the least!
The guy in Shahira's video waffles on about cultural differences, and he may be right that such behaviour was accepted 1400 years ago. The unacceptable thing is that mohammedans today are called upon to emulate such behaviour, and too many of them do so.
Anonymous, your point about the lunar calendar is an extremely good one. Aisha could therefore have been 8 at the time of the consummation, but she may well have been 9. Either way, it is inexcusable that Muslims will not condemn this act of paedophilia today.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSDNAd-zP7I
ReplyDeleteThis is what is happening all too frequently in Yemen today..young girls, marrying older men
Quote:
ReplyDeleteJuniper: Female children are not expected to wear headscarves. It is only obligatory to do so once they hit puberty. However some parents just want their daughters to get used to wearing the hijab at a young age so they don't feel awkward about it when they are older, e.g. in their teens.
Sometimes parents make their young daughters wear it when they go to the mosque just out of respect of a holy place.
I don't know about twisted "Muslim" men and families who force their wives or children to obey Islamic commandments because the majority of Muslim men and families aren't like that.
I only started wearing the hijab when I was 22 and it was a decision that I made by myself and I'm 100% happy with that decision. I don't know if I will make my daughters (when I have them someday) wear the hijab before puberty because it isn't a requirement in Islam at all.
end quote.
How can something be "obligatory" and yet not "a requirement"?
Have you any idea how inconsistent your statement is?
Have you any idea how irrational your thinking is?
I may not have this entirely correct, but it is my understanding that girls wear the hijab in order not to stand out.
ReplyDeleteSurely, in a western culture, the wearing of the hijab makes them stand out since it is the western culture not to wear such a piece of clothing?
there is no god but allah and muhammad (sal) the messenger of allah. there is no doubt in that. if u all dnt know about islam and our prophets then dont argue just keep shut.
ReplyDelete